Welcome
Welcome to The Garden Of Dreams

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!

Sum of No Evil underrated

The forum for discussion about the Music of The Flower Kings

Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby hardlanding » 28 May 2015, 23:45

Looks like this forum needs more "fresh" postings to keep it going - so here's one!

Sort of by accident, I listened to Sum of No Evil for the first time in a *long* time. (I say "by accident" because I I needed something to listen to while I was working on the car, and there was an old copy of the CD in the armrest.)

Frankly, I had forgotten how strong this album is. When it first came out, I listened to it OVER and OVER, so I have always liked the album, but I guess because TFK went on hiatus after that, I kind of forgot about it.

Some random thoughts:

- "One More Time" is a wonderful opening cut, with a great hook, and is upbeat and positive, just what I love about TFK.
- the drumming is *fantastic* - no disrespect to Felix at all, but I really enjoy Zoltan; it also helps that the mix is much better for the drums - clearer and sharper than the recent 2 albums.
- The Bonus Disk is very strong as well. In fact, I wish "The River" and "Turn the Stone" were on the main disk. IMHO, if you swap "the River" into the "Trading My Soul" slot, and "Turn the Stone" instead of "Flight 999 Brimstone Air", this album becomes off-the-charts great. (I've been listening to it this way with a playlist just for fun, and I really like it).
- The lyrics throughout the album are weak. They are, in general, forgettable, which was unusual for TFK up to that time. I think I remember an interview with Roine saying something similar, but I could be wrong.
- The closing cut, "Life In Motion" feels sloppily pasted together: the first section ("Real Life in Motion") is excellent, and it fades to a natural ending at the 8:00 mark, and then the last 4:25 section is just tacked on, with a terribly awkward transition (if you can call it that - it's silence then a drum roll). I guess he wanted to add an "album closer" feel to it, with an echo of the earlier songs. It's not bad, but that break at the 8:00 mark is embarrassing.

Overall, I think I prefer this album to the 2 most recent ones, for a number of reasons. Just my opinion -
Last edited by hardlanding on 29 May 2015, 20:40, edited 2 times in total.
hardlanding
 
Posts: 26
Joined: 04 Oct 2008, 18:16

 

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby projeKct » 29 May 2015, 02:29

Well...

Never been a fan of "One More Time"... repetitive melody... no highlight for me.
"Love Is the Only Answer" has some very good bits! But it's a bit un-cohesive...
"Trading My Soul" is a nice song, nice atmosphere... nice guitar solo... but not a TFK all-stars song.
Then comes "The Sum of No Reason"... at first I was skeptical. But this song grows on me. Excellent!
"Flight 999 Brimstone Air"... Kind of Bodin solo project. Love it!!! Zoltan shines! 8-)
Conclusion song "Life in Motion" is OK but not great.

"The River" is very good. Early TFK-style!

So all in all... it's an average TFK album IMHO. Pretty equal to "Banks of Eden". But "Desolation Rose" seems better.
User avatar
projeKct
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1321
Joined: 04 Oct 2008, 15:09
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby Symfoon » 29 May 2015, 09:56

I've always liked The Sum Of No Evil no question about that!, specially because for me it was more or less the last album which was produced and recorded well
and it was also the last album to have a great drumsound... (maybe because of Zoltan's prescence?? ;))
"Nu is het tijd voor de eerste balade van de avond..." (J.Reingold)
User avatar
Symfoon
 
Posts: 666
Joined: 06 Oct 2008, 14:16
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby flowerkingsfan » 29 May 2015, 17:45

I've always liked The Sum of No Evil album. I like and listen to every song on it, can't say that that about most of TFK's albums. Not that they are favorites, by any means- but quite enjoyable. I also saw TFK on that tour, so that adds to the good feeling about this album. Definitely more of a positive feeling than the last 2 albums. I also prefer Zoltan to Felix- actually imo I think Marcus Lillequist was the best TFK drummer. :)
flowerkingsfan
 
Posts: 139
Joined: 30 Dec 2008, 23:48

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby hardlanding » 29 May 2015, 20:47

Symfoon wrote: for me it was more or less the last album which was produced and recorded well)


Have to agree. I have no claim to being a picky audiophile, I'm not an audio expert, but I don't understand how SoNE can be so much clearer and well-defined to my ears, and yet Roine (who I get the sense is quite picky) is happy with the muddy mix of the recent 2 albums?
hardlanding
 
Posts: 26
Joined: 04 Oct 2008, 18:16

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby projeKct » 29 May 2015, 23:38

flowerkingsfan wrote:I also prefer Zoltan to Felix- actually imo I think Marcus Lillequist was the best TFK drummer. :)

And what about Jaime?
User avatar
projeKct
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1321
Joined: 04 Oct 2008, 15:09
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby The Letter M » 30 May 2015, 15:08

Definitely a favorite of mine, one of the better latter-day TFK albums (well, at least above The Rainmaker and Adam & Eve for me). I've turned it into a double album for my personal listening pleasure and added in the bonus tracks:
Disc 1-
1. Love Is The Only Answer (you've GOT to open with the epic, right? lol)
2. Trading My Soul (crossfaded with the epic, so it had to follow)
3, Regal Divers
4. Turn The Stone
5. The River (ends with the lyrics that open the epic, brings the first disc full-circle)

Disc 2-
1. One More Time (works as an opening still, at least on disc 2 here!)
2. The Sum Of No Reason
3. Flight 999 Brimstone Air
4. Life In Motion

It's a nice little 96-ish minute double album, and a wonderful set of 9 songs over-all. Even to this day, I spin it is with a bit more regularity than Banks Of Eden, which took some time for me to really get into.

-Marc.
The Letter M
 
Posts: 131
Joined: 30 Dec 2008, 03:18

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby Max Power » 01 Jun 2015, 10:04

One More Time is the growing classic of the album, totally epic! Play that song one more time! Love is the only Answer has some of the coolest instrumental sections of TFK, the rest of the album might be a bit lesser, but not much.
User avatar
Max Power
 
Posts: 599
Joined: 06 Oct 2008, 08:31
Location: Belgium

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby wowie » 01 Jun 2015, 13:00

first of all, this forum will never close, like tfk will never be a bad band ... or they get included into the rock n roll hall of fame ...
:D

i think TSONE lacks a bit of drama...in relation to all other albums. Still there is more drama then ... you know what i mean.
It flows very constant, clean and fast.

One More Time and Life in Motion are very good tracks. Great instrumental, great vocals, great melodys ... very fine tunes. (Both A- ratings)
Trading my soul is a very straight one ... okay but a bit suprising. (B-C)
Flight 999 is a very nice short instruemental ... and you maybe see what i mean when i say lacks drama and "fast" album... (B)
The Sum of no Rreason is a song that is pretty low on my ratingscale. I think this so called DARK is something ... dont know but since space revolver and adam & eve, the heavy parts in tfk are not very satisfying... (C-D)
Love is the only Answer really got some very strong instrumental parts. Quite modern symhonic fusion stuff. But its also a bit weak here and there... (B -C)

The bonus songs are oooookay ... The River (B) got a very good melody.
“I would rather be a man of paradoxes than a man of prejudices.” - IDIC
User avatar
wowie
 
Posts: 1641
Joined: 15 Oct 2008, 11:09
Location: ffm

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby flowerkingsfan » 01 Jun 2015, 20:12

projeKct wrote:
flowerkingsfan wrote:I also prefer Zoltan to Felix- actually imo I think Marcus Lillequist was the best TFK drummer. :)

And what about Jaime?


I like Jaime better than Felix...
flowerkingsfan
 
Posts: 139
Joined: 30 Dec 2008, 23:48

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby projeKct » 01 Jun 2015, 23:46

flowerkingsfan wrote:
projeKct wrote:
flowerkingsfan wrote:I also prefer Zoltan to Felix- actually imo I think Marcus Lillequist was the best TFK drummer. :)

And what about Jaime?


I like Jaime better than Felix...

So your ranking goes:
1) Marcus
2) Jaime / Zoltan
3) Felix

:)
User avatar
projeKct
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1321
Joined: 04 Oct 2008, 15:09
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby hardlanding » 05 Jun 2015, 00:22

It's hard for me to compare them because they are so connected with certain songs, or certain periods of the band.

For example, Zoltan fits perfectly with "The Truth Will Set You Free", and Jaime fit perfectly with the earlier, less jazzy era (like on I Am The Sun, for example), so there's no "better" drummer for me between the two.

Felix is a tremendous drummer, very much in the mold of Zoltan, but because there's no specific highlight song in his 2 albums that emphasizes his unique skills, I can't put him at the top of any list; I sure hope the next album is well produced and lets his drums shine more, because he deserves to be highlighted.

While Marcus is a great drummer in his own right, I can't say I enjoy his work with the band, because it's very understated (IMHO). I will say it's amazing how much he gets out of such a small, simple drum kit, but I guess it's too simple for my tastes. A good example is in the live "Instant Delivery", his take on "Truth Will Set You Free" - it's more straight-ahead rock drumming; not bad, but just doesn't bring the same fantastic effect that Zoltan did. I know Roine said that that period (and tour) with Marcus was a very happy time for the band, so that also says something positive for him, but he just leaves me wanting more.

(On a related topic, my understanding is that Roine had to get rid of Zoltan because someone didn't get along with him - does anyone know any details of that? Roine said he had to because of internal friction in the band, but that he loves working with Zoltan, and we know Jonas gets along well with him, so it must be either Tomas or Hasse?)
hardlanding
 
Posts: 26
Joined: 04 Oct 2008, 18:16

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby projeKct » 05 Jun 2015, 02:16

hardlanding wrote:(On a related topic, my understanding is that Roine had to get rid of Zoltan because someone didn't get along with him - does anyone know any details of that? Roine said he had to because of internal friction in the band, but that he loves working with Zoltan, and we know Jonas gets along well with him, so it must be either Tomas or Hasse?)

Maybe some info here: http://www.dprp.net/specials/2008_reingold/
User avatar
projeKct
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1321
Joined: 04 Oct 2008, 15:09
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby Symfoon » 05 Jun 2015, 16:44

hardlanding wrote:(On a related topic, my understanding is that Roine had to get rid of Zoltan because someone didn't get along with him - does anyone know any details of that? Roine said he had to because of internal friction in the band, but that he loves working with Zoltan, and we know Jonas gets along well with him, so it must be either Tomas or Hasse?)


Tomas Bodin was the 'evil force' behind Zoltan's departure. Specially when on tour Tomas had big problems with being around Zoltan all of the time. So it was more or less very 'childish'
of Tomas when he stept towards Roine one day giving him the choice it's him or me leaving. ofcourse with Roine's longtime relationship with Tomas it was Zoltan who finally had to go.

Zoltan replied to me once about it when i asked him, infact it was after the last gig with Zoltan in 013/Tilburg when they headlined ProgFest II - 'we are not the best of friends but
we are both great musicians playing great music together so in that light i have no problem at all with Tomas, he only seems to have a problem with me... If it was my choice i would
love to stay with The Flower Kings and forget about the problems we're all f*cking adults for God's and music's sake.....'
"Nu is het tijd voor de eerste balade van de avond..." (J.Reingold)
User avatar
Symfoon
 
Posts: 666
Joined: 06 Oct 2008, 14:16
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby hardlanding » 05 Jun 2015, 19:09

Thanks, projeKct and Symfoon, both posts were very interesting!
hardlanding
 
Posts: 26
Joined: 04 Oct 2008, 18:16

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby projeKct » 05 Jun 2015, 23:16

Symfoon wrote:Tomas Bodin was the 'evil force' behind Zoltan's departure. Specially when on tour Tomas had big problems with being around Zoltan all of the time. So it was more or less very 'childish'
of Tomas when he stept towards Roine one day giving him the choice it's him or me leaving. ofcourse with Roine's longtime relationship with Tomas it was Zoltan who finally had to go.

Zoltan replied to me once about it when i asked him, infact it was after the last gig with Zoltan in 013/Tilburg when they headlined ProgFest II - 'we are not the best of friends but
we are both great musicians playing great music together so in that light i have no problem at all with Tomas, he only seems to have a problem with me... If it was my choice i would
love to stay with The Flower Kings and forget about the problems we're all f*cking adults for God's and music's sake.....'

That's enlightening, thanks.

But that doesn't explain why Zoltan had to leave Karmakanic too... No Tomas there... And Jonas & Zoltan was an incredible duo... Any explanations on that, someone?
User avatar
projeKct
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1321
Joined: 04 Oct 2008, 15:09
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Sum of No Evil underrated

Postby Symfoon » 15 Jun 2015, 16:30

projeKct wrote:But that doesn't explain why Zoltan had to leave Karmakanic too... No Tomas there... And Jonas & Zoltan was an incredible duo... Any explanations on that, someone?


Don't know for 100% sure but it was at least a big issue when Zoltan was also leaving Karmakanic. Couple of years back the band was booked for headlining the Rock Ittervoort Festival on a Friday-evening
somewhere in the south of The Netherlands, this was to be just a one-of gig for the band (so Karmakanic would jump into a van in Lund/Sweden drive to Ittervoort in The Netherlands
play the gig on friday-evening and return to Sweden on Saturday). Zoltan was booked at the same time for doing a multiple week tour in Japan with a famous
Scandinavian jazz-musician (i think it was a famous bass-player, but not Jonas;)), but can't remember the name exactly) this would pay him a considerable amount of (more)money than playing just a one-of gig
with Karmakanic for maybe 400 people. So Zoltan decided to go on tour in Japan with this jazz-guy for about 3 weeks and not play the gig with Karmakanic. So at the very last moment Jonas had to ask
Jaime Salazar if would join Karmakanic for just 1 gig to help them out, and he agreed. The story goes that there was no time left for proper rehearsal with Jaime, because he lives in another part
of Sweden, so what Jaime did was that he asked Jonas to prepare a disc with all the music that the band was going to play on that night. And he learned his drumparts by only listening to the music while he
was actually also driving the van (and the rest of the band was asleep..)

So if you ever heard Jonas joking about Jaime Salazar as being 'the rainman' now you know why..... :) The only 'rehearsal' they had with Jaime was when they were actually doing the soundcheck for
that particular night.... i was present at that gig and i can tell with maybe only 2 or 3 minor mistakes Jaime played an amazing two hour set with Karmakanic on a more or less 'grabbed and borrowed'
drumset.... But this whole story was also one of the (main)reasons why Zoltan also left Karmakanic.
"Nu is het tijd voor de eerste balade van de avond..." (J.Reingold)
User avatar
Symfoon
 
Posts: 666
Joined: 06 Oct 2008, 14:16
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands


Return to The Flower Kings

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
suspicion-preferred