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When will the next TFK album come? This year? Or next year?

The forum for discussion about the Music of The Flower Kings

Re: When will the next TFK album come? This year? Or next ye

Postby Symfoon » 07 May 2015, 10:51

@projeKct,
well to be honest i was actually quite relieved when i got to read Andy's post to my friend on 'modern production' as it actually meant that we are not just trying to be nerdy or hostile towards
TFK or Roine in particular when we complain about the quality of sound and/or production when it comes to the latest releases. And please note this is not just only the problem with TFK but
with many bands even the (very) big ones.

Although it doesn't rate that high at all on the rating system you used i still prefer (and wished) the latest few albums had the sound and production of Stardust we Are as i am pretty shure
i would have loved those records much more than i do now.... Personally i think in particular the drums sound really horrible on the last few albums they never even come close to the drumsound
which was produced on the albums which had Zoltan or Jaime sitting behind the kit. Those albums had a clear and direct drumsound and on the latest albums with Felix it all sounds like the drums
were recorded from behind a thick carpet or curtain it all sounds much to muffled and muddy for my taste.... but as Jonas referred to it, maybe also i am sufferring from 'vintage sound preferences' :D
"Nu is het tijd voor de eerste balade van de avond..." (J.Reingold)
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Re: When will the next TFK album come? This year? Or next ye

Postby hardlanding » 07 May 2015, 18:38

Personally i think in particular the drums sound really horrible on the last few albums they never even come close to the drum sound which was produced on the albums which had Zoltan or Jaime sitting behind the kit. Those albums had a clear and direct drumsound and on the latest albums with Felix it all sounds like the drums were recorded from behind a thick carpet or curtain


I completely agree. It surprises me since Roine clearly has strong opinions about the sound, and I get the sense he can be a perfectionist, but I haven't seen that on these last albums.

It's also surprising because the Transatlantic studio albums sound great, and even the Karmakanic albums sound better (IMHO).
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Re: When will the next TFK album come? This year? Or next ye

Postby projeKct » 07 May 2015, 20:02

Symfoon wrote:Although it doesn't rate that high at all on the rating system you used i still prefer (and wished) the latest few albums had the sound and production of Stardust we Are as i am pretty shure
i would have loved those records much more than i do now.... Personally i think in particular the drums sound really horrible on the last few albums they never even come close to the drumsound
which was produced on the albums which had Zoltan or Jaime sitting behind the kit. Those albums had a clear and direct drumsound and on the latest albums with Felix it all sounds like the drums
were recorded from behind a thick carpet or curtain it all sounds much to muffled and muddy for my taste.... but as Jonas referred to it, maybe also i am sufferring from 'vintage sound preferences' :D


Just to complete my previous post, with Dynamic Range (DR) ratings for each TFK album, the dynamic range is only a small part of the sound quality. Sounds can also be compressed individually, such as - and in particular - the drum sounds. So Banks of Eden has the poorest DR rating, and UtF has the best one, but both can sound very good (or bad) anyway. Does that make sense? (I'm not a professional!)

Banks of Eden 7
Desolation Rose 8
Space Revolver 8
The Sum of No Evil 8
Stardust We Are 9-9 *
Unfold the Future (promo version) 9-9 *
Flower Power 10-9 *
Adam & Eve 10
Back in the World of Adventures 10
Retropolis 10
The Rainmaker 10
Paradox Hotel 11-9 *
Unfold the Future 10-11 *

* CD1-CD2

And also, I don't think that using this Dynamic Range Meter for comparing TFK albums is the right thing to do (even if this was my idea). The main goal of this plugin is (I think) to compare different editions of the same album: promo, original, remaster, remix, re-remaster, etc.

:geek:
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Re: When will the next TFK album come? This year? Or next ye

Postby wowie » 12 May 2015, 11:48

great posts guys!! ... thanks for all the info and thoughts!
I use foobars range meter at work some times :)

well of course it depends a bit on the music. so if you have lots of solo, silent passages, long tracks, the DR can be affected.
The sound also depends highly on the recording, mixing and the filters u use. The compression must/should not kill good recording and mixing.
If you have a good recording, you dont need that much compression or anything else to make it sound awesome.
If you dont have superior recording, you need some eqs etc to make it sound like a good recording.
And then there is this room where it is hard to get with a natural live recording and mixing, because some productions are so synthetic, that u cant reproduce it live. Specially for full blown rock or big band recordings.
Thats also why many bands dont hold the live test and why some drummers sound pretty cheap live.
And i dont have big problems with good compression and if i dont have to turn the gain because its a fucking low mix. Dynamics are psycho-acoustic too, so the audience know what is meant to be silent and loud. You dont have to do it physically as much as it was in the 70s.
So im not pretty sure where exactly the sonic quality of UTF (and A&E) is gone... but i think it depends on Roines and the other guys vision of the sound.
The AoM albums and also the last Karma shows it.
Do we have any detailed information about the albums recording studio, who mixed etc??

I also dont think the majority of the fans want them to sound like on Retropolis. Its just a specific kind of style they want.
But tfk have changed few times during the last years. I think they cant sound like in the beginning. So Vintage Prog pt2 might be a good approach for that.
But Tomas and Roine wont be able to reproduce that time i think. And yes, more jazz, i say it all the time ... but thats not enough. We need the right vision ...

I also think that some people are a bit overflown with the last two albums. Like i was with PH back then.
NUMBERS is such a great great track. It stands out, globally!!!
And just with BADBeats and Psalm 21 they show, that they are still hi-def in all terms .... well, just not the production.
The same goes for Karmakanic and also Eggs & Dogs dont have to hide!! "YOU ARE" GOT A MARVELLOUS PRODUCTION I THINK!!
Barracuda Triangle was a very good classic fusion release .... havent checked the sound here ... would be interesting ...

Because of the drum sound, maybe some know i complain about it too. But this heavy depends on the kit and the recording etc.
Marcus sound was quite better then Zoltans i think, but the production relativated it again.
Felix drumkit sound is very special, specially his toms. So this is quite a factor you must respect i nterms of the endproduct. So here the audience is put into a real adventure, as you have to adjust a bit until you have YOUR sound, and not what the bands want you to hear. Then its hard to say that u did a lousy job, so im not quite sure how much of that soud is really intended or just a bad job of mastering.
But i think there is some sort of intention ... it sounds live, not like any other recording and it has enough pressure if you gain it up and eq a bit. Nerds like us should have the gear ;)
And everybody else listens on ipad, car etc ...

btw
I also have to say that i havent set up my hi-fi speakers and everything else. So i listen mostly through car, pc or mp3player since ... 3 years. Maybe i will now again, i just moved and its all lying around so good opportunity to build it up again.

TFK also had their own approach of production and instruments since the first record. It might be a wonder if there would be a lot of change to that and they will come up with a hi-def
fusion, metal like or ... modern zeitgeist mastering...we will see where it leads with the new batch of albums from all projects.
Maybe they try to hard and should just relax more, do some simple heavy metal riffs here and some easy listening synth lines and all would be happy i dont know ... some sort of World of Adventures style.
After all ... maybe its the thing of playing it more instrumental, experimental and pure .... but at the same time hold the quality of harmony, melody and atmosphere... like i said in my last post.
But its always about writing good songs and knowing what the most people love about music... sadly its not as easy as we think if we start writing a post. Mostly its just the luck that you have the right (not the complete or perfect) skills at the right moment. And then you buil up on it until you loose the grip.
The last album combines a lot of good skills, sadly not very consistent but its there if you look right. So then we come back to the visions of the guys ... u cant do that much about it, and we dont have too .... if we want more good prog, we must learn how to play and record by ourselfes and we must teach our children! ;)
Well im the last who would say a good critic isnt worth something :D
Its so so much to care of if you want it to be a superhit ... specially in the field of eclectic prog. You must care for every fucking bit or many will be dissapointed because there are so many different approaches. So it must be relaxing to say, we are just a Jam Band ;)
so i guess next album will include a longplayer again ... and im curious what will happen ... tfk is always good for suprise

Dynamic Range
Genesis "Foxtrot" 13-14
King Crimsons "Islands" 13-14
:D

Desolation Rose got a 8, but SR also got a 8, so this doesnt say that much in some cases.
Melody Gardots "My one and ponly thrill" only got 8-9 too.
So you can produce a superior album with a DR around 8. You dont need it higher. You need good recording and mixing.

what are we talking about anyhow?
tfk is still the best!!!
[youtube]34NAVIZPBV0[/youtube]
“I would rather be a man of paradoxes than a man of prejudices.” - IDIC
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Re: When will the next TFK album come? This year? Or next ye

Postby Symfoon » 12 May 2015, 16:39

Maybe we actually are just a bunch of prog-nerds and the problem is we just don't see (or in this particular case : 'hear') it ?!? :lol: :geek: :ugeek: :o :shock:
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Re: When will the next TFK album come? This year? Or next ye

Postby carlosb » 28 Nov 2015, 09:48

Before yesterday, on facebook, at the question "Flowerkings Kaput?", Roine said something very encouraging for all of us:
"We'll get that bus & shiny happy once more - do not worry - It may need to go to the mechanics - may need a few new wheels and seats - but it'll be up and running before 2016 - fresh and better than ever. "
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Re: When will the next TFK album come? This year? Or next ye

Postby projeKct » 28 Nov 2015, 15:03

Before 2016 ?! Well... that is pretty much NOW !! :)
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Re: When will the next TFK album come? This year? Or next ye

Postby NotSteven » 28 Nov 2015, 20:57

carlosb wrote:" -- it'll be up and running before 2016 - fresh and better than ever. "

Make that "before the end of 2016" and I'll buy it. (And I'll buy the new album, too.)
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Re: When will the next TFK album come? This year? Or next ye

Postby Chessman » 28 Nov 2015, 23:24

NotSteven wrote:
carlosb wrote:" -- it'll be up and running before 2016 - fresh and better than ever. "

Make that "before the end of 2016" and I'll buy it. (And I'll buy the new album, too.)



Same here ;)
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Re: When will the next TFK album come? This year? Or next ye

Postby The Letter M » 30 Nov 2015, 23:37

So does Roine mean they will BEGIN work on a new album before the end of next year, or they will RELEASE a new album before the end of next year? There's a HUGE difference between the two, about half-a-year's worth of difference.

Either way, I'm still looking forward to new Karmakanic until then, so I can wait a bit longer. I'm sure there will be a new Steve Hackett live album as well with Roine on it, too.

-Marc.
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